Cath Bishop is a 3-time Olympian, Olympic Silver Medalist and World Champion Rower. Following her rowing career she served as a foreign diplomat for over a decade, Cath specialised in conflict issues, with postings to Bosnia and Iraq, as well as stabilising conflicts around the world.

Lewis and Cath discuss a range of topics from the Tokyo 2020 games, the value of all medals, what success looks like and the shift society can take away from outcome-focused success.

• What Cath is up to lately. [3:50]
• Different kinds and levels of rowing. [5:20]
• English rowing in the Tokyo Olympics and the transition it is going through. [6:30]
• What people perceived as success in Olympics. [9:32]
• “The definition of success we currently have is narrow and self-defeating.” [10:30]
• In sport’s psychology, obsessing about winning does not help you win. [11:35]
• We see a much healthier approach to winning as athletes shift away from attaching too much obsession to winning one event, which is only a narrow snapshot of their life. [12:47]
• Having a learning mindset to build resilience. [16:30]
• Some winners also feel empty and depressed after winning. [18:50]
• The future of mental health for athletes in the next 6 months. [21:25]
• Structures, leadership in sport, policies should catch up and prioritize mental health for athletes. [22:35]
• “There is no proof that 60 medals are better than 50 medals.” [25:49]
• Cath’s story and how she got into sports. [29:52]
• The impact of sports psychology – separating performance from results. [34:37]
• What Cath has learned from the Hollywood-ization of sports. [36:15]
• Cath’s career as a diplomat. [39:55]
• Things Cath took from her sporting career that has helped her career as a diplomat, and vice versa. [42:39]
• Human beings are social animals and we need to have relationships that go beyond the transactional level. [46:48]
• Physical education is our biggest strength, learning about our body and our mental health is something that will always benefit us. [46:55]
• The motivation behind Cath’s book, The Long Win [49:30]
• Part of our brains is wired to win, part of our brains is wired to appreciate meaning, purpose, deeper motivations which can fuel performance. [49:45]
• We associate shame in asking questions and not knowing the answer. [53:10]
• We should encourage kids to ask better questions. [54:09]
• Caths Books Recommendations. [56:16]

Matthew Syed articles in The Times

Black Box Thinking (Amazon UK)

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